Excellence Above Talent Podcast
The State of Man Is in Crisis—It’s Time for a Conversation.
The Excellence Above Talent podcast was born from pain, loss, and a deep need for change.
- Men are 3.6 times more likely to die by suicide than women.
- Men commit the majority of violence in the U.S., including domestic abuse and sexual assault.
- 90% of the prison population consists of men.
These are not just statistics—they represent broken families, lost lives, and a cycle of harm and abuse that must end.
As a BIPP (Batterer’s Intervention and Prevention Program) Director for four years, I’ve had countless conversations with men—men who believed abuse was necessary, men who didn’t even realize they were abusers. What I learned is that men want to talk, but they have no safe space to do so.
Society teaches men to suppress their struggles, to avoid vulnerability, and to uphold a toxic version of manhood. But silence is destroying us.
The Excellence Above Talent podcast is here to challenge the status quo. We’re redefining what it means to be a man—one conversation at a time.
Join me. Let’s fight for the future of manhood. Our sons are watching.
#ExcellenceAboveTalent #MensMentalHealth #RedefiningManhood #BreakTheCycle
Excellence Above Talent Podcast
Run 100 Miles, Still Can't Outrun Your Feelings
Pastor Andy from Hope Alive Church shares his journey through modern masculinity, revealing how vulnerability and faith shape authentic manhood in ways our grandfathers never experienced.
• Contrasting traditional masculinity with modern expectations—from his grandfather's stoic approach to today's emphasis on emotional intelligence
• Finding purpose beyond wealth and status by focusing on family and faith rather than societal measures of success
• Vulnerability as a cornerstone of true masculinity, especially in marriage where openness creates partnership
• Breaking generational patterns through therapy and self-awareness to heal from childhood experiences
• The importance of quality time in fatherhood—"I believe that time makes a great father"
• Building authentic male friendships based on accountability, humor, and shared growth
• Navigating complex social expectations while maintaining personal values and faith
• How running 100-mile ultramarathons has taught patience and perspective in life's challenges
If anyone hasn't told you today they love you, let me be the first to say I love you. You're awesome, you're amazing. You deserve the best that this world has to offer. Do not give up, do not quit. The world does not get easier, but you will get stronger.
#excellenceabovetalent #EAT #dontgiveup #youdeservethebest #youareenough ...
You're listening to Excellence Above Talent, a podcast where we have the hard conversations about the lives of men and what leads us to achieve greatness and suffer defeat. Hear from other men's journeys as well, as we all learn and grow together to become inspirations to ourselves and those around us. And now your host, Aaron Thomas.
Speaker 2:What's up, my beautiful people, aaron Thomas, with Excellence Above Talent, I am here with Pastor Andy. Pastor, andy, is what you're over what? At Hope Alive Church.
Speaker 3:I'm over the kids the Hope Kids department and then all of our volunteer department, the volunteer coordinator.
Speaker 2:So Pastor Andy does a lot at Hope Alive Church. Like I said yesterday, this is a church that is really making a difference, helping change the community, getting the word of God out there and showing God love. So it's a great pleasure and honor of having Pastor Andy on the podcast. He's also a runner, something that I wish not that I wish I was, because I can be, but when I say runner he runs like 100Ks and 50Ks. So mentally you have to be very strong to do those things. 100k is the longest you've ran. 100 miles, 100 miles oh good Lord, not even 100K, 100 miles. So, going back into our series, we have five topics identity and purpose, emotions and mental health, relationships and brotherhood, fatherhood and legacy, and then masculinity and society. Identity and purpose First question is what does it mean to be a man today and how has that changed over time? Oh man, oh, man is right.
Speaker 3:You know, I think of my grandpa first Times were just, it was just different. My grandpa never spoke about his, really about nothing. You know he joked around a lot and stuff, but just really about what was going on that day or just trying to make conversation. But you know as far as you know what he was feeling hurting, even physically hurting, you know. You just didn't hear it.
Speaker 3:You didn't, you know, you just didn't hear it. You didn't. You know, he was a carpenter, and so I know that there was bumps and bruises and your back hurts and I dropped this today or whatever, but you never heard it. And so I think that that that generation is I don't want to say they had a hard time with it, but at the end of the day, you only know what you know. And at that time, um, at that time, you know, men just worked, yeah, went home and took care of the house, and then, you know, that was their responsibility, it was their, it was their job, and as long as they were doing that, um, they were good men. Yeah, and I'm not disagreeing with that, my, my grandpa was a great man. I think that now that we've gotten, now that I've gotten older and times have changed, things have become more common there's a lot more resources that are out there to be able to figure out some of the issues that we do have, even as far back from childhood, even as far back from childhood.
Speaker 3:So and being able to shape the man that we can be by using those resources and specifically like therapy and running, you know, exercise and stuff like these men. They weren't in the gyms like that. You know they weren't focused on on keeping their mind straight, you know, through physical activity it was. It was just all business. You know, I think we've got a different. We've got a different. We've got a different outlook, which some of that generation may not agree with, right like yeah, for sure, in their eyes we're out here just goofing off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, like when we should be working.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um we might look soft to them. Yeah, yeah. So I think that you know it's definitely changed in that way. Um, I'll say this I think that, as as men, as we get older, it's important, especially when you get, when you get married and you have kids, it's important to be selfish with your time, and that may be an unpopular opinion, but you know, I think that it's true. Yeah, I think it's real true, and I don't mean like me, like I'm gonna take care of me, my wife can take care of the kids while I'm taking care of me. Yeah, no, I'm saying, like you know, as a family, you and your wife, you and your spouse, whatever, you have to be selfish and say no to some things. You know what I mean, because at the end of the day, it's just a job. Yeah, I don't mean that you want to be starting from the bottom all the time, quitting jobs left and right, but at the same time, you know your wife is your wife, whether you're broke or whether you got it all, they don't, you know.
Speaker 3:Truth is you got nothing if you don't have her. Yeah, once you've made that commitment, of course, right, well, you would hope so. You would hope so.
Speaker 2:That's true Out here now. If you're broke, a woman is not. You know, not all women, but some women are going to be like I'm not staying around.
Speaker 3:Well, there's the infidelity part of it too, which I think is not to say it wasn't happening. It was definitely happening, but I think it's a lot more common today, and people will treat marriage as something that is not optional, but like it's optional when you're in it, 100%. I'm going to be married as long as I want.
Speaker 2:I love you until something happens, and then.
Speaker 3:I'm out. Yeah, 100%. So you know they make divorce an option way too quickly. Yeah and yeah, man, just I don't think that that. I think that the older generation had that down, Gotcha. They were willing to fight for it. Stick it out.
Speaker 2:So Heck, yeah. So how can men find purpose beyond society's focus on status and wealth? And I'll tell you this this was a hard question for me to answer because in my head, without status and wealth, like who are you? But then understanding that there's purpose still beyond your status and wealth, yeah for sure.
Speaker 3:I feel like I have a different perspective. Yeah, too, I've seen in my lifetime people I mean from seventh grade all the way through high school, every year somebody died. Uh, seventh grade kid, a kid named chris sat next to me in math class, gone. To be honest, I still don't know what happened. I just know he was gone. Um, I mean, it just went like that, right, yeah, and as I got older and got it became an adult, same thing.
Speaker 3:You know, people just die, yeah, you know, and I think that a lot, you know, lack of exercise and things like that, and the food we eat and you know, contributes to that, but car wrecks, you know, whatever. But it can be over. Yeah, that's my point. Very quickly, I leave your house today and be done, yeah, somewhere along the way, and so, with that in mind, I've seen it too many times to not have it in mind in mind and with that, you know, I think that, as far as don't, I want, I want to have, you know, the zeros in the bank account and you know that status. But at the same time, if I don't got it, I don't really care, I'm good, um, as long as you know my bills are paid and the wife's happy and the kids are happy, um, and we get to go on vacation and do the things that we like to do. You know we got to save for those things and make them happen. You know we don't just have that money yet ready.
Speaker 1:You know, all the time yeah, I'm okay with that, that's okay.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to spend my life my, you know, my my time, you know away from them. I've done that. Yeah, I'm not gonna. I'm not doing it, no more, gotcha to chase, so something that something that somebody else is looking at like I don't care how you see me man like I, I don't, you know, I don't, it doesn't bother me that. You know, if you think that he dresses in them same shoes, you know he's always wearing them same shorts, you know I look like adam sandler I don't care man like it doesn't bother me, yeah I want to be comfortable.
Speaker 3:Number one Facts Most I'm going to be wearing jeans. If I can get away with sweatpants, I'm going to have them on or shorts during the summer. My shirts are all from races. You get a shirt when you finish a race. I earned that shirt. I'm going to wear it. Ask me about it 50K, it wasn't 50K. How long is a 50K? So you know, I just don't. When it comes to you know, status and the way that folks perceive me, I just don't care. Man.
Speaker 3:And that could, honestly, that could be a bad thing too, you know, yeah, but I think for the most part, the way society looks, what would make it a bad thing?
Speaker 3:the way society looks Well, we're making a bad thing. Well, because I think that you can get to a point where your attitude is so it's flawed because of it, right? Yeah, of course, I don't care like if people you know they say you know he's got his weapons on again. You know that doesn't. I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to be the guy that is, you know, not respectful to the situation. Gotcha, I got you to to a degree. Yeah, I'm not gonna shoot and tie the thing. Yeah, you know, um, but at the same time, you know, I I'm not gonna wear sweatpants to your funeral, gotcha, I've done that once, but I, I had to.
Speaker 3:I was working in the middle of the day and that was the only time. It was one of my good friends that passed away, and his mom actually, she didn't see me come in and she was in the front row and I walked up to the casket and was just sitting there talking to him for a second and I heard her say who came in here wearing sweat pants? And I turned around and looked at her and she was like oh, I'm sorry, I and sweatpants. And I turned around and looked at her and she was like oh, mijo, I'm sorry I explained, but you know, I think that you can get to a point where you don't carry yourself, got you. You know, and it can be, it can hinder things.
Speaker 2:Got you. I mean that makes sense, all right. You said something I kind of want to ask, uh quote happy wife, happy life. That's a tough one.
Speaker 3:I uh uh, yes, okay, yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 3:No, I do actually uh, it's not a tough one I, I do, I, I think that uh that wasn't always the case, gotcha, when, I you know, we've been married uh, 17 years and when we first got married, it was about, you know, you know, making money, what, what can we do to stay afloat having fun? We were doing all the things, yeah, and uh, as we had kids and we matured and got older, uh, I realized that you know my kids, even my kids, they're gonna grow up and go. Yeah, I hope. Right, you know, and, and I always say like I always say like, go far like I don't mean like.
Speaker 3:I don't love you, I just mean, like the world's a lot bigger than Midland Odessa. 100%. Like go and to see it is a beautiful thing. Yeah, go see it, go have fun. Like go explore things. And so I want them to have the confidence to be able to do that. But at the end of the day, when that happens, you know it's me and Steph. We have a life together. We're going to be married, you know, after they're gone, and so pursuing that now, while they're here, is priority one, gotcha. And so, aside from making sure that they're spiritually fit, you know what I mean getting them, you know, into the house every week, getting them, you know, getting them to church and making sure that they're, you know they're in the places and doing the things that they should be doing to pursue God and His call over their life, and so, but you know, beyond that, once we, once they leave the house, it's us.
Speaker 3:So meanwhile, you know we're doing date nights and you know often, you know two, three times a month, yeah, and you know as far as like getting a babysitter to get the kids out of the house, or if we can't do that, we pay somebody to come stay in the house and we'll leave the house, we'll go get a hotel room yeah and you know something or we'll go to lubbock, or, if we don't have, time, like you know enough time to go to lubbock.
Speaker 3:We'll. You know, whatever, we're doing something, yeah, uh, and just making sure that our relationship stays fresh, and we're doing things you know, gotcha the reason why I asked?
Speaker 2:because you talked about selfishness. Uh, and that quote grinds my gear Happy wife, happy life. Because you don't look at like, if that man is not happy, or if that man's not doing what he's supposed to be doing, or if that man is struggling, the wife could never be happy. Because me personally, like the only the reason why your wife is happy is because the man that's in the house is also happy. If that, makes sense.
Speaker 3:I think that there's a thing on here about vulnerability and I think we jumped there. I think that what I've learned from my wife I'm not by any means speaking for all women here, but what I've learned from my wife is my wife is happy when I'm vulnerable and she's able to help with my situation. And so if a man is going through it whatever you know work's not going right you know what I mean he hates his job, whatever the case is right, which these are all things that happen, right For sure.
Speaker 3:So if a man is going through it and he's keeping that from her, in his mind to try to protect her right Like I don't want to stress her out with this stuff Then, yeah, absolutely there's going to be an attitude shift on his part which is going to reflect on her part, gotcha. But I believe wholeheartedly that if the man would drop it, drop the pride, and be transparent, be vulnerable with his wife and say listen, we're broke right now.
Speaker 3:And honestly, I don't know. I can't at this point, I can't see the way out. I know that there is one, but I can't. I can't see it yet and just let all your let the feelings out.
Speaker 1:How do you feel about?
Speaker 3:the situation. Why is it bothering you? And allow her to. Number one she, she's happy because you know you trusted her enough to be able to vent to her. Yeah, and then, secondly, you're giving her an opportunity to jump in on the solution you know, because she might have some good ideas. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Like there might be some things that she can do, uh, to get you out of, to get you out of a hole, you, the hole that you think you're in alone. Correct, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:But it's just a thought, because you're not there by yourself.
Speaker 3:You're not. You know what I mean. We have a partner and that's what she's. I'm not saying that's what she's there for, but that's one of the reasons why she's there is to help. You know what I mean. You don't have a money problem. Y'all have a money problem, 100%. You know so, or whatever the issue may be. But yeah, I think that the wife can be happy, even through struggle, gotcha, if you would open and just be transparent and allow her to be a part of the solution.
Speaker 2:That's a perspective I have not seen. This is why I love having these conversations, because now you get to kind of go deeper into okay, hey, yeah, that does make sense. Yeah, if I'm open and vulnerable and if she's able to help in this process and I'm giving her being vulnerable and helping with her.
Speaker 3:So yeah, that's definitely a different perspective that I didn't see. I'd add to that by saying you know, for a believing man, there's a trust that has to be there, not necessarily, but obviously with you and your wife, but there's a trust that has to be there. You know where. You know with God. Like I've been here before, yeah Right. Like I've been broke before, sure, the. Like I've I've been broke before Sure, the car's broke before yeah, we've been behind on payments before All of these things.
Speaker 3:I've been sick before, my body's been hurt before, and God has always provided Right, always, always, yeah, he's never failed, he'll never let you down. And so, with that knowledge, I believe that it's our not that they shouldn't the wife shouldn't believe it on her own but part of our responsibility is to reinforce these things right, lead in this manner. And so the response should be we're broke. I don't know what we're going to do. We're going to get kicked out this house.
Speaker 3:No, the response is listen, we're broke, we're behind on this payment. We got this one coming up. I honestly can't see the way. But listen, I trust in the God that we serve. Yeah, is that a first response? For a lot of people, probably not, probably not Right, but you know it wraps, it comes around at some point or another. Yeah, and if you would just take the time to look back and just say, hey, you know I've made it through worse. Yeah, and God has seen me through, and God has seen me through, yeah, and so it's my responsibility to make sure that my wife knows that, and you know that I'm not trusting that God is going to take care of us, but we are trusting that God is going to take care of us, and so it's a team effort, yeah.
Speaker 2:Why do you think it's again going off the path? Why do you think it's hard for people to, when they're going through the tough times, remember how God has taken them through so many other things that are maybe even tougher than what they're going through, where they just can't see it now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that that's just humanity man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I honestly think that our feelings, you know, they just override fear, whether we want to admit you know that that's fear or not. The truth is, the reason that you're worrying about it is because you are afraid. Of course you are. You're worried that you don't have what you had. You know what I'm saying, especially if you've been in a place where you didn't necessarily have to check the bank account before you went grocery shopping. You know what I mean. Um, and now you thought you'd never be back to paycheck, to paycheck again. And here you are and um, you know that that's just. There's frustration in there, there's fear, there's pride and it's just a lot. I don't think it's abnormal for our human emotions to pop up first. You know, I know that it's been preached many times. Like you know, like you got a problem, bring it straight to God, and I believe that a problem, bring it straight to God, and I believe that. But in a practical sense, our first reaction is to get mad, get afraid. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Somebody disrespects your wife, you're not going to stop and pray about it, right? No, not calm anyway. No, no, if you have enough strength to walk out the door without doing something yeah, that's a win on its own that's all.
Speaker 3:If you have the strength to walk out the door without doing something about it in the moment, you you pray for it, then probably yeah, somewhere along the line on the way home, or whatever it may take, but your first response still was anger. Yeah, that's just humanity. I believe, though, that it's just it's. It's important not not to beat yourself up on the fact that you got your emotions came.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean and you had to overcome yeah 100.
Speaker 3:We serve an overcoming god you know I mean unover, we are overcomers, because of him, not because because of us, for sure, and so you know, or anything that we did. And so when humanity pops up, some people they'll run with it, and you know, they do all the things that they shouldn't have done before they turn back and they're like man, I missed that and it's crazy because I think that's the part.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I put myself in Something bad happens or something's going down and I'm trying to fix it myself and I'm making a mess of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I made it 10 times worse, yeah, than if I would just stop, took a deep breath and then ask god like, hey, god, like this is it's me, like I'm going through this, I'm trying to, you know, find a way out and I'm just hoping that you can help guide me through it, versus putting on that cape to save myself Because I make the worst God, little G, the worst God. When anything happens and I'm like, okay, I got to take care of it, I'm 100% of the time I'm asking him okay, god, please help me, because I have made a mess of this. And I think a lot of men just people in general, but men they sometimes allow their ego to take over and create more than just going to God, maybe not that day, but like next couple of days. Sometimes it's like months before I realize, oh, yeah, I need to ask God what I should be doing. Yeah, and it's usually the total opposite.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Some of we're fixers. Yeah, and there's no way around that. You know what I mean. Like that's what we want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And even after all the years of you know, being in church and being in ministry like I still want to handle the situation at times myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I know better.
Speaker 3:You know, I know good and well that I'm not capable at times, but still yet I try to give it a go. Yeah, I think that we do have a responsibility to act. We can't just pray and then not do nothing. You know what I mean. Like, all right, lord, they're really mad at me right now. I said these things and everybody's mad, I got kicked out the gym or whatever happened.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we don't get to pray that and say, lord, help me, fix it, and then sit on your butt and do nothing. Gotcha, you know what I mean. Like we, we have a responsibility to do something. The problem is we do something before we go and ask. And in those moments too, you know, I think that it's important to point out that we, we do things. Like you know, we'll go to God and we'll go to pray and we're like Lord, you know, we start the prayer with Lord. I'm in a mess, you know, and here, you know, here's what I need help with, you know what I mean, or whatever. And we start asking all you know, right away. And we need to get into a rhythm of giving thanksgiving, you know, and being grateful about the things that we do have.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was talking about this yesterday with Freedom in Christ, with the guys there. And you know one of the responses you know, when I'm injured, I can't stand being injured, like you know. I hurt something and I can't run and I got to cycle instead. I just I hate it, right, my mental space gets in a funk. I just I hate it, right, my mental space gets in, you know, in a funk and I just don't like it, right. But you know, rather than, uh, jump straight into prayer and say, lord, I need you to heal this leg because you know I got a race coming up, um, no, no, no, I jump in, jump in and say, lord, I'll, you know. Thank you, you know, for allowing me to do this activity and be able to feel this pain. You know what I mean being able to get up and still walk and still move. And you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:We have to change the approach, we have to change our response. If we can't, that's with everything. If you can change your response, you can change the way that. You know what I mean, the way these situations tend to go. Your process, your process. You take the time to. Okay, I'm going to keep my mouth shut and I'm going to listen. First I had that problem for a long time. I set it off before I thought about even what I was saying and then the next day I had to go back and apologize and fix and do all these things.
Speaker 2:Well, you'd be setting off. And while you're setting off, you realize like halfway through, damn, I'm going to have to apologize. I just ain't going to do it today because my ego ain't going to let me, but I'm definitely going to have to. You know, apologize to certain people and you finish what you got to say and then you leave and then you have to come back. Yeah, I think, now that you're talking, I think, now that you're talking, god has a way of slowing us down.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:A lot of times, instead of slowing down when he puts us through these tests, or sometimes we put ourselves and thank you for still allowing me to do something to keep my mind, you know, busy. I think that is such an important aspect and piece that we sometimes try to fly over because this is a fast paced world, it's slowing down Could be a sign weakness from from my perspective as a man, like if, if I get hurt, like and I can't do stuff and I gotta slow down it, it feels like it feels weak. Yeah, um, but sometimes in those slowing down periods, that's just god saying hey, this is you're going, you're going, you're going too fast and you're not in where want you to be and this is just for you mentally to come back into alignment with me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I believe it's to teach us patience at times. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Really to not even.
Speaker 3:I mean, I guess I didn't know what I was called to do. Gotcha, you know what I mean. Yeah, I knew what I was doing in my job. I've always been pretty decent with organization and structure and things like that. That's just the way my brain operates, but I didn't know what I was truly called to do. Am I supposed to be this great preacher like Pastor Cliff or Pastor Brandon, or is teaching more my thing?
Speaker 1:Which direction.
Speaker 3:I feel like I knew the answer, but yet I still doubted it. I think I knew from the jump that I wasn't necessarily, uh, a preacher. Right doesn't mean that I don't like to preach, I don't enjoy it, I just don't.
Speaker 3:I mean I truthfully I don't envy the guys, like I don't envy pastor cliff who has to do it yeah he wednesday's over, he's got to start, you know, working on sunday, yeah, and I know, I know the way his mind works and I know that he doesn't. They don't start thursday, right, like he's's prepping weeks, you know what I mean, like ahead of time. But just the pressure from that alone, yeah, nah, bro, it's a lot. I don't, maybe someday, you know, but I feel like you know that's a, that is a true, all of it's a true calling. But you know he knows his role, yeah, and so I was trying to do these things to fix that problem that I was having in my mental space because of it, right, yeah, it's just insecurities and comparison problems, and you know just all these things I'm trying to fix. And in that process, like I finally learned, you know, god just finally told me, like stop me, like just just do your job and stop.
Speaker 1:Like everything else will come yeah.
Speaker 3:And it did. In that time, you know, I was going to Freedom in Christ and getting a chance to talk to them. If you don't know what that is, it's a men's recovery center. Some of these guys are just recovering from alcohol, you know, drugs, things like that, and it's like a little tiny ranch that they get to live on and like that. And so it's like a little tiny ranch that they get to live on and, uh, and it's free, it's free of charge, it's. It's here in Odessa, and so I get to go over there every Wednesday and and speak with them and through them, through doing that every week.
Speaker 3:uh, I had to prepare something. You know, show up, uh, speak, I have an hour, and so through that, I found myself doing more teaching than I was doing preaching. We were digging deep, we were loopholing or rabbit holing through the Bible man.
Speaker 3:I love it. That's kind of where the ball started rolling. Finally, everything started getting revealed to me. I was like all I needed to do was just be patient, accept the process, stop trying to fix it myself. Just be grateful for the opportunity to be able to do what I'm doing, instead of again going back to the praying, you know, instead of praying and saying Lord, show me, you know, just thank him for what I got to do that day instead, you know. And so when I started doing that, everything changed.
Speaker 2:It's wild Good stuff man, yeah, yeah, I can see why things change because you're slowing it down, just saying, hey, I appreciate you. Yeah, because I don't have to be here, but I'm still here and there's a reason why I'm here, and you know I don't. But I'm going to just show up and continue doing what I'm doing. Yeah, and everything will work out the way it needs to work out. Yeah, awesome man. How does vulnerability fit into true masculinity? We kind of went over it, but yeah, I think it's everything, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I really do, because in my experience, anyway in my life, I think that being vulnerable with my kids and my wife people at church, you know is important. Number one because people can tell when you're not 100% when you're shut off. Yeah. One because people can tell when you're not I understand when you shut off. Yeah, when the walls are up, they can see that and so you know as a pastor you want to be approachable.
Speaker 1:And this is something I've really had to work on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know you want to be approachable and you want people to be comfortable when they speak with you and talk and, at the same time, your home life. You want to make sure that you aren't being one person at the church and another at home and true vulnerability allows people to see your humanity while you are operating in your gift. Being able to do that at the church for folks that want to get to know me better. When I first met Pastor Cliff, it was one of the things. When I first met Pastor Cliff, it was one of the things that I just absolutely loved about him and his family. The Pastor Cliff that I talked to at the church was the same one that I got at the house. Yeah, 100%, to the full extent. Yeah, I seen him and Pastor Martha argue it out at the church. I seen them do it at their house you know what I mean and they both were like I'm sorry, you saw that and in my mind I'm like no that shows me, you guys are real.
Speaker 3:There's a human aspect to it. Fight it out, do what you got to do, but it really I think it brought us closer in that time. But for me, I believe that's what people look for, especially when they're new or they've been to a church where that wasn't the case, you know, and so when they come in the only way that they're gonna hear the gospel is by trusting who's saying it. Yeah, and so it, if that makes anything yeah you know.
Speaker 3:I think that they need to because, like I said, they can tell and so, being able to properly communicate that with folks, they need to know that you're a real person. You have the same problems they do. You know what I mean. You got feelings and emotions. You got feelings, emotions. You have bad days. You know what I mean. Like everything happens At the same time. I always say somebody's always watching. You know, specifically talking about your kids. So my girls are always watching what I'm doing. So if they see me, you know being the thy and thou in conversations with people in in in my prayer life, um, you know, I'm praying a certain way on stage, but I don't, you know, do that at home, you know, or I act, just completely different thing. I think dad's fake. You know, kind of lose that respect. Uh, same with my wife. Same situation. Yeah, you know, kind of lose that respect. Same with my wife. Same situation.
Speaker 2:So I think that it's everything Got you. So going into emotions and mental health. How or why is emotional intelligence often left out of conversations about manhood? I think pride.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think pride. Yeah, you know, when we were younger and you know you're in school, school, high school, and it was almost like it was cooler to be dumb, yeah, you know, then, like if you, if you were doing your homework, you were a nerd. Oh yeah, nerd you know you're doing like oh no, I got an a, you know, got straight a's going right now like guys, you know, yeah, there's all these jokes right like yeah, I think it's a common thing even today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a common thing, but unfortunately I think that rolls over into adulthood. Yeah, and so being on one end, being in in certain circles, being the smart guy in the room is, or the guy with the degree that you know, all these things the, the guy that puts that work in, is looked down from the other guys. That didn't right, because there's plenty of men that have all these plaques on the walls and stuff and they're making their money and they're living their life and living their best life at that. They're doing great. And then you got men that don't have none of that on the wall but they got probably more money than this dude because they work in the oil field or something out there.
Speaker 3:One looks at the other like he's better. Whether you voice that or not, you know what I mean. There's this comparison. Like you know, I didn't have to go to college to get mine. How is the school hard knocks. I hate when people say that. And then the other guy's like I just wanted to be smarter. You know, I just wanted to know more.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you kind of get addicted to it. So I don't know, man, that's a hard one.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, but it makes sense. Yeah, you, a lot of times we talk about man boxes and you know we all have these different boxes that people put us in and if Start coming out of a box to show who we really are, usually guys will let you know that's not cool. Yeah, that's not cool to be faithful to your wife. Yeah, you know it's not cool to talk about you know degrees and stuff like that. So you do you kind of, yeah, you dumb yourself down, you try to act like you're a part of that clique when that's not part of the group you need to be around or be with.
Speaker 3:I think that when you do that, it says more about you than it does them. 100 and you know for you being able to allow. You know, over our years there's been people that have been in our circles at times that didn't have respect for our marriage, you know, or didn't have respect for anything really they bring crap and you'd buy them over for a barbecue. And they bring over they have Coke in their pocket or something, you know what I mean Like they just didn't respect your household.
Speaker 1:Nothing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know God has a good way of knocking them people out your circle. And, truthfully, you're going to do a lot of that on your own, because not everybody can go where you're going. Yeah, whether that be in the fitness world, in education, in church, in your career, it makes no difference. There's a certain point of growth where people fall off because they either they don't, they don't want it. You know what I mean. Like that's your dream, not theirs. They don't want it, they don't understand it. They don't want to understand it. Truth is they don't need to understand it. Truth is they don't need to understand it. They can either stay and help or they can go. Steve Harvey I say this quote all the time, but he said that you got two types of people in the world. You got people that are pushing the wagon and people that are riding it. We don't have time for people that are riding it. You're either helping pushing this thing.
Speaker 3:We're either pushing each other. We're either building each other up yeah, I can either count on you to be my accountability partner or a accountability partner. If you don't check any of those boxes, then there's no place for you in my circle. I understand, and there should be a place for me. If I'm not doing that for you. You know what I mean. Yeah, the world is hard enough trying to do it by yourself. Yeah, we need strong people, you know, in our circles to say hey, to be honest, and say, hey, you screwed that up. Yeah, yesterday, when you set it off at the gym, you know, and you did all those things. You were wrong. Yeah, and you need to fix it because we need you. Yeah, you know, and so without those people there's no oversight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it can get real difficult and lonely. Yeah, for sure We'll jump into because we did kind of go off. But I love you know, I like having structure, but I'm also big on the flow of things and I think people sometimes need to hear you know the backstories of things and I think people sometimes need to hear you know the backstories of of of things so that you know they can. It all comes together. There's sometimes I do a podcast. I'm like I don't know what the hell just happened. Yeah, from beginning to end. I'm like I don't, but I mean it's, it's like I mean it's like one of those circles. It just always comes back and always ties together. I think that is also pretty awesome. I think that's common, yeah, yeah, so we're going to go into you know what. We're going to stay. I got one more question on emotions and mental health. What are the biggest mental health struggles men face, or what are the biggest mental health struggles you face, and why are they often overlooked?
Speaker 3:well for myself. Uh, I said earlier, you know, you only know what you know. And the lack of knowledge in mental health and, um, you know things of that nature, they, they weren't talked about when we were kids, right, yeah, no, yeah, no, they wasn't. And so growing up becoming a man in this era where therapy and mental health is, you know what I mean. There's resources for it, it's important and we're realizing how important it is. You know, it's not as simple as, oh, that resource is there. Now I'm going to go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that resource is there. Now I'm gonna go yeah, now we have to change our mind about it first, because, you know, being this tough guy, all business, that's how, that's how we, that's the men that we saw yeah, that was the example that we had, and so we have to change that definition in our own mind first, and then, uh, and then take the step to to get in there and and you know and do it and learn it. Um, some of the struggles that through that well, I'd say that was a struggle on its own was making the adjustment in my mind to be able to get into therapy and start talking to somebody about some of these. I think that one of the biggest struggles is dealing with the things that either happened to you or happened because of you. Yeah, when you were a kid, maybe it didn't happen because of you, but all your life you felt like it did. Gotcha, divorces, things like that you know what I'm saying. Like there's dealing with that stuff, especially the hard topics you know that you don't even want to talk to a therapist about or you don don't want to bring up. Those are your secret topics. You know those are, those are.
Speaker 3:Those are the toughest, I think, for me. You know, up until probably eight, nine or so, I was in the house. I was in the house the whole time. But you know, I eventually started leaving on weekends to go stay with, you know, family members because my parents fought so bad. You know, um to the point where I remember as a kid getting you know, we slept in a women's shelter at one point. Uh, I remember leaving the house like late. I don't know what time it was, I just know it was late. I was already asleep.
Speaker 3:I got woke up, put in the car and you know, there was just all these issues that my parents had, um, that, truthfully, I forgot it, I didn't forget, but I think I just shut out for so long. And but because of that, seeing the way that, um, you know, my dad was with with my mom, and then the way that he was with us, you know, uh, I grew up knowing that that's not what a man is supposed to be right yeah and my dad has.
Speaker 3:He's a. If you, I'm sure you've met him. Like I mean, he's not the same person anymore, you know, not even close, and so so much has changed over the years. It's wild, but at that time, uh, that's the way, that's the way that's where he was at.
Speaker 2:That's where he was at right. Maybe that's what he figured out anew.
Speaker 3:Learning that the problems that I have now, anger issues and the things that I've dealt with, knowing that it's learning that it stemmed from there. Gotcha Not blaming my anger issues on my dad, yeah Right, but just the situation. And so I think that when you anything that you put your hands to your you know your car breaks down, it's going to be a whole lot easier to fix it if you know what's wrong with it. And so therapy is the same way, it's the same thing. And so you work up enough courage, talk yourself in and you actually get in the door. Then you figure out OK, I have these anger issues because of this, and once you know why you get the, why you get, the explanation becomes a little easier to work on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because you're not working on it blind. And the question is what does a healthy male friendship look like, and why do many men struggle to form deep connections?
Speaker 3:The accountability has to be there. You need strong men to be able to.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 3:I think it's important to, at times, to be the dumbest one in the room. Gotcha, you know like there's nothing wrong with that no, not at all. And so you go to the gym. There's always somebody strong, Always someone stronger, Faster. Yeah, you go run, there's always somebody faster. Or if you're faster, guaranteed they can probably run further. Yeah, you know like it's hard to have it all.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And so, but having a good balance of that in the friendships that you have, you know it's just going to push you to be that much better in the areas that you lack. Yeah, I use the gym as a reference a lot, but you know what I mean Like anything in business, having those good role models. And to, you know what I mean, like anything in business, having those good role models. And two, you know, not just sticking to all the serious things, right, but like guys joke different and think different. Yeah, man, you need that. You know you need somebody that you can, you know, you can, joke around with and I'm going to say you can cross the line with. You know what I mean with some of these things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, get that laugh out and then, uh, and then that's it. You know what I mean. Like it's important to have the humor side of things as well as the structure. You know, and I think that, whether people want to admit it or not, or see it or not, the, the people that are in your circle, are your structure. Yeah, and you're gonna. If you're, you've got five friends that all cheat on their wives, do drugs and drink. Well, guess what it's?
Speaker 2:just a matter of time. You're the sixth one, yeah.
Speaker 3:But if you've got five friends that are all business owners and millionaires, you're going to be the sixth one. Yeah, it's important, man, because they're role models, gotcha, and you are to them too. You're important to the group. You need to know you bring something to the table you have worth. Yeah, and they want to be around and have you in their circle. For that reason, yeah, and good friends will remind you of that, gotcha.
Speaker 3:Because there's some things like. There's some things that my wife can say all day long Not that it doesn't mean anything, because it does, but it's like when you tell a kid like, hey, you can't go here, you can't do this, whatever, and then she kind of blows you off and then the youth pastor says it at the church. Pastor Brent says it at the church oh, that's what you mean. Oh, okay, it doesn't register, I just said it. You know what you mean. Yeah, okay, you're like it doesn't register, just said yeah, you know, and so it, you know.
Speaker 3:There's the same way, you know, with you know, when you're grown, you know your wife could say you know, you bring so much to the table, thank you for everything that you do. Uh, you know you're a good man, all these things, and you're like in your mind you hear it, but you're like you're supposed to say you're my wife, you're just being, you know, not that she's just being nice, she may truly believe it, yeah, but you hear it different. Yeah, you know, when a good friend, a good male friend, comes to you and says, bro, you're killing it, yeah, you're doing so good man, I've noticed so much growth, like it hits different, it does, and so it's just, you know accountability.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fatherhood and legacy, what makes a great father, and how can men heal from their own past to be better parents? I feel like you've kind of already covered that second piece of it, but the first piece what makes a great father is what I would like for you to expound upon.
Speaker 3:I believe that time makes a great father. I think that, uh, my girls don't know what's in the bank account or what's going on at the job and, honestly, in their world right now, they probably they don't even care. Yeah, you know they got so much going on.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So you know, being um a father is setting them up for success and making sure that they have every resource to be able to do that gotcha in a responsible manner. I know, guys, that you know all they do is work and when it comes to money, the family's set. Yeah, like there's no need for the kids to even work if they don't want to.
Speaker 3:You know I'm saying like, but it's not all money yeah right, it's time these same men will tell you you know, I never got to see the little league games. I never got to go to the baseball, soccer, football games and I never got to. You know, teach them how to do simple things. You know change oil, you know attire. A lot of these boys are growing up and their parents got a whole lot of money and the response is we'll just buy a new one. You know, we'll tire pops, we'll go get another one. Well, I got to go get another one Instead of. This is how you patch a tire. You know what I'm saying? Dad wasn't there to teach him that because he was off working so much. I think that the time that you invest is more important than everything, because the legacy that you're going to leave behind isn't one of well, my dad worked hard. Yeah, um, that may be true, yeah, and he left us set up for success. And then they ask well, who was your dad?
Speaker 3:well, I don't know, yeah you know, uh, I think a good father is is um is great at communicating who he is, what his beliefs are, what his values are, and instilling those into his kids, at the same time still making sure that they have every resource for success. This doesn't mean everything they want. Gotcha, you don't need an Xbox to get into college. You don't, no, but you need structure and you need. You know what I mean. Like, you need a push, you need encouragement. You need't need an Xbox to get into college. You don't, no, but you need structuring. You need you know what I mean. Like, you need a push, you need encouragement. You need you know what I mean. You need tutors. Sometimes there's all kinds of stuff that you may need to get you there, but the point is to get you there.
Speaker 2:Because at some point I'm going to become selfish. Did I prepare you enough? Definitely, yeah, if I did, you should be all right, or you will be all right If I did my job you'll be fine, and so.
Speaker 3:Am I a perfect father? Absolutely not, but that is something that I strive for.
Speaker 2:Last question. It's a doozy. I say it's a doozy, it could be an easier question for you. How have feminism and gender equality reshaped what's expected of men?
Speaker 3:Honestly, okay, I think it's put men in a box. Okay, I think that we have to. I'll go as far as to, far as say, too, I don't think it's just me, yeah, but I think that everybody ends up having to tiptoe around this, these topics, yeah and um, because there's. Yeah, we have to tiptoe around these topics because, if not, then you know the backlash from your answer or your um. It it's bad right yeah, could get canceled.
Speaker 3:They, yeah, make you out to be this horrible getting canceled, like I wish I, you know, could get canceled at times. But there's, you know it's more of um, there's more to think about whenever, whenever you're a father, because it's not just if people are mad at and I'm okay with that, correct If they're mad at Steph or one of the girls, that's a different story. Different story Because it's something that I did, gotcha, or said yeah. No matter how much I may believe that it was the truth and it needed to be said.
Speaker 2:There's still going to be backlash that they're going to have to deal with because of me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's what's hard, gotcha. Um, if I was a single man, no kids, yeah, and somebody asked, you know, and we got into it and you know what? Let me back up truthfully. If you ask, I'm gonna give you the answer, gotcha, whether you like it or not, yeah, and you might get mad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's just the way it is, but you ask so that you can't. You ask like don't, I wasn't giving that opinion. You open that door. This, this is what happened because of you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I don't. Um, I'm gonna give it to you, I'm gonna give it to you straight. But uh, yeah, I think that that society has shifted and changed to where we either have to be on board and in agreement agreement with whatever the agenda is or we hate them. Yeah, and I'm gonna take it a step further. I think that that differences in race are the same problem. I'm upset. We can't have, we can't have, like we can't have, simple conversations anymore about, you know, black versus white, yeah, brown versus you know what I mean. We just we can't do it. It never ends well. Yeah, I mean it never ends well because this is one of those taboo topics. It's turned into one of these taboo topics that you either have to be in all the you.
Speaker 3:There's no um being on the fence about it. You're either in and helping with the agenda or you hate those people. Yeah, and that's just not the truth, Correct? You know you think about politics and things like that. You know I don't agree with everything that the last president did, right, but there were some good things that he did right. Can I get behind everything and would I sign my name on everything that he did?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no.
Speaker 3:Would I do that with a Democrat? Would I do that with a Republican? No, and I don't think that this is any different when it comes to feminism, man, that can be a fun conversation if you play it right. That and transgender and just the whole LGBTQ players yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know anymore.
Speaker 3:You know you either got to be in with the. You either got to be in and in agreement with the lifestyle, or you got to hate them, or you got to hate them. Yeah, one of the two. Yeah, because no matter which direction you pick, at some point some party is going to be mad at you for it.
Speaker 2:And even if you play it down. You know the middle there's still people going to be screaming. You got to pick, you got to pick, you got to pick. Yeah, you got to choose which side you're on. Yeah, which could be frustrating because I don't got to choose anything. Yeah, you know, it's you, you're living your life and that's the life you live and I'm, you know. I can just tell you what I know and live the life that you know god has created for me and that is that is it.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I think that with the, the most frustrating part for me with the, the whole transgender is the, the, what's it called? My? What is the? What are your? Oh, your pronouns, pronouns, yeah, yeah, yeah, couldn't think of the word. Yeah, yeah, that you know. You can call yourself what you want to call, but don't ask for me to pretend with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, and that gets so much people get so upset about that. Yeah, yeah, these are my pronouns. Yeah, they're your, they're your pronouns, but I'm, I'm like as a human. You, you woke up and you chose, uh, to make those pronouns your pronouns. I'm still human and I still get a choice between do I do I call you by your pronouns or do I call you by how I see you?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think we look at the facts in all the situations, so with from the transgender side and then even feminism side, there's arguments that I think are valid and some that aren't. I do agree that there's a lot of places where women don't get paid as much as men 100%.
Speaker 1:That's a problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is, and so there's a whole lot of over the top with it, though. Yeah, you know, and so I believe that there's a lot of places where I don't believe, if you look at the facts. There's a lot of places where the opportunity to make the same type of money is there, yeah, but there's a lack of something gotcha, um, a degree. Now, it could be a degree or years of experience or whatever, um, but you know, if you aren't willing to, you know, go back to school, get the degree. You know that that person has for.
Speaker 1:Both sides.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, as a man, don't whine about, you know, not having the job, the position, the money, whatever that this female is making. Yeah, when you didn't put the work in, like shut up.
Speaker 2:You just assume, because you're a man, you should get it. You should get it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, calm down with that. Yeah, so you know. Look at the facts, get it. Yeah, calm down with that. Yeah, so I, you know, I look at the facts, look at all the facts and you know, if you woke up with some male parts and you want to call yourself a female, that's your prerogative. Do that like yeah, whatever, um, just don't expect me to join in with you. Yeah, you know, I don't. I think that expectation is where the problem comes in.
Speaker 2:100 because it's not like I despise or hate you because that's what you're choosing to do. It's just like you. You can't force me, yeah, to see something, when I see it when one way, when I see it a whole, totally different way, yeah, um, so, yeah, no, it's. It's. It's a conversation that people are afraid to have, but it's a conversation that needs to be had Because it's getting thrown into every movie, every book, the redoing movies, every TV show. Yeah, like you know, where the women are powerful, there's some form of of like a gay relationship, there's a transgender something that's happening.
Speaker 1:Check all the boxes. You got to check all the boxes because this is a new normal. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's like you're forcing something on on people maybe that don't care about what you do, and king caramel, then there's going to be issues. You know what I mean? I mean, I mean, that's what it sounds like. Yeah, I woke up one day and was like I was, I'm a king, I'm a king from Africa, and then I'm going to now force everyone to call me, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got to call me this.
Speaker 2:You got to call me this, or if you don't, then I'm going to get very upset and make a ruckus about it, and I get it. But I don't get it because forcing someone to, I guess, make them see what you see, it's not really going to work.
Speaker 3:It comes down to. They spent so many years hiding what they felt, 100%, and I think that's valid. They have felt a certain way for a long time. They didn't know how to tell their parents friends, things like that. They didn't know how to tell their parents friends, you know, things like that. They didn't know how to come out, yeah, and when they did, they may have caught some serious backlash for it, like disowned, like there's a lot of really bad situations, right For sure, and so now that they're out, they want to be heard, they want everybody to know about it, yeah, and then you're going to respect, you know, my decision to be called this, that or the other. Um, but, like you said, I was just about to say that, man, you like nobody cares what I'm doing in life, like nobody cares. You know, business-wise, fitness-wise, at the church, like nobody's calling, nobody cares, man, truthfully, that's just the way the world is, yeah because that's what they're trying to, you know, survive, and yeah, they're trying to make it.
Speaker 3:I don't say they don't care, like in a bad way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure they're not paying attention.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like that. Like get over yourself. Yeah, um, you know it's, that's what's frustrating, uh, for me, I I just, you know I don't, I don't get it. Yeah, don't. Uh. We were at a party in uh, years back. We were at a party in this. There was a. There was a guy and his boyfriend there and and boyfriend's talking to somebody, a lady, and the other you know boyfriend, comes up, he says this is my boyfriend. And then she was like cool, I don't, this is my husband, I don't care. Like, um, it's a, it's this need to make it known. Yeah, um, and then fall into all the categories and check all my buttons so that I can feel validated yeah um when, when you're already validated.
Speaker 2:I think that's that's the the main point that I want all people to know regardless of what you choose to be or not be, you're already validated. You're already enough. Yeah, you don't have to come in guns blazing trying to push this agenda of like, this is what it's going to be, because it seems like there's less credibility because you don't feel good about yourself. That's why you're trying to force people to say these things or to do these things to make you feel good when, at the end of the day, even if they do it, you're still not going to feel good because you're not going to be validated.
Speaker 3:You're not going to feel worthy, I think it's just going backtracking, going back to why they as a person, why they feel the way that they feel.
Speaker 3:A hundred percent and being able to begin to start working through that problem. Yeah, the problem isn't people's reactions towards you, the problem is your reaction to them. Yeah, people disagree with me all the time on. You know this, that or the other my style, and you know running or my approach and training. And you know this, that or the other my my style, and you know running or my approach and training, and you know things um the way that I study, or going to school, or you know what I mean. Like there's people, that there's naysayers, no matter what you do for sure, and so we don't. You know we don't need to react to the way that our responses mean everything, man. Yeah, we don't need to react to the, to the way that people react to us like.
Speaker 2:That's what sets us apart.
Speaker 2:That's why we're different and there's beauty in that there is beauty in being different and being set apart. Yeah, we went a lot deeper than any other conversation that I've had so far, so I thought that that was interesting. Um, not because people are afraid to have the conversation, uh, but because, um, they took a different spin on it. He said my spin was you have to be adaptable. That that has a reshape man, I mean you, just you have to be adaptable. Shaped man, you, I mean you, just you have to be adaptable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's one thing that you know men can do out of, out of to me pretty good, yeah, uh, is being able to adapt and try to figure, you know things out, because we are fixers and so if something doesn't work, we're going to try to. You know, we're not just going to keep hammering the nail and in this problem, if it's not working we have, we will pivot and we'll try to figure something else out. So if anyone hasn't told you today they love you, let me be the first to say I love you. You're awesome, you're amazing. You deserve the best that this world has to offer. Do not give up, do not quit. The world does not get easier, but you will get stronger. Y'all have a blessed day. Bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode, and for daily motivational and up-to-date content. Follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Excellence Above Talent. And remember keep moving forward, never give up and you are never alone in this battle. We'll see you next time.
